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Michael Roderick - Go Beyond Getting Referrals by Making Your Brand Referable

Is your brand referable? Many brands and businesses ask for referrals, but what if your brand was so distinctive and top of mind that people got excited to talk about it without any incentive? If that’s the case, you have a referable brand. This episode is all about what makes a referable brand and things you can do so that your brand is referable.

Michael Roderick is the CEO of Small Pond Enterprises which helps thoughtful givers

become thought leaders by making their brands referable, their messaging memorable, and their ideas unforgettable. Michael is here to share his framework for making your brand referable. He goes into how it’s all about taking A.I.M. or focusing on accessibility, influence, and memory.

We talk about making your brand stand out in an authentic way that is easy to understand and easy to share. We talk about the questions you should ask and important factors that drive referable brands. Michael dives into the language, emotion, simplicity, and structure that can make your brand stand out in people’s minds.

Michael's unique methodology comes from his own experience of going from being a

Highschool English teacher to a Broadway Producer in under two years. His frameworks have been featured in Forbes, Business Insider, and popular podcasts like The Art of Charm and Unmistakable Creative. He is also the host of the Access to Anyone podcast. A podcast that shows how you can get to know anyone.

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Michael Roderick thank you so much for being here!

Remember, you might be in business FOR yourself but you are not in business BY yourself.

Be your best self. Be proud and keep changing the world.

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[02:14] Michael is excited about watching his children grow up during this time that he's been spending at home. He loves being there for his little ones.

[04:09] Getting referrals is pushing people to do things. Being referable is having people share your thoughts and ideas for you. As a result of this sharing, people just start coming to you.

[05:00] It's how people are talking about you and your ideas when you're not there.

[07:51] What is the emotional driver that makes you so excited that you want to tell everybody about it? It comes down to feeling like you're doing a favor for the person behind the company.

[08:32] True influence is when people will do things without being asked. Have something that's actually useful for the person it's being shared with.

[09:08] Think about how sharing your information would make the person doing the sharing look. Podcasts get shared because people want their friends to know about the great information that they heard.

[12:28] People can tell if you're being authentic with the ideas you share. You need to believe in whatever you're putting out there.

[15:38] We don't know what people are going to hook onto. We have to listen to what the market has to say.

[17:02] There are three main principles to becoming a referable brand. They are accessibility, influence, and memory. You can think about it as taking AIM.

[17:29] Accessibility is the first hurdle that we have. Make sure that you are understood by people outside of your industry.

[23:00] With influence we're almost always thinking about the concept of persuasion. People don't share things because they are persuaded or pushed towards it. They share because it makes them look better.

[25:28] Think about what's out there and how your point of view could shift things a bit. What's the slight variation of the concept that everybody gets that you can create to add to it?

[29:11] Sharing has the power to change someone's reputation. People want to share the things that are going to make them look better.

[30:58] People don't want to share things that aren't simple and take too long to share.

[32:59] We spend so much time trying to tell a story well. Memory is a key factor in whether people will retail the story or not. If you want people to remember you more then focus on less.

[33:47] Language. Come up with your own language and the words that express your specific concepts. Give people words that refer back to you.

[36:28] Emotion solidifies memory. It's part of our biological makeup. When we're at heightened states of emotion we remember more details. Take the time to tap into the emotion.

[38:00] Simplicity. Give your audience away to simplify what you're trying to share with them.

[39:41] Structure. We need a logical progression in order to share things.

[41:05] Being the best is important, but it doesn't necessarily translate into being a referral brand. Showing your expertise is so much more powerful than telling people about it. You do this by developing your own framework and concepts.

[43:44] Michael shares his answers to the Rapid Round including the importance of reflection and self-care.

Guest Contact

Contact Jeffrey


Have Your Website Brand Message Reviewed! Is your website and are all your marketing materials speaking the right LINGO of your ideal customers? Often it’s not which is why you’re not converting traffic and leads to clients and attracting your most profitable customers. Fill out the simple LINGO Review application and I’ll take a look at your website. If I have suggestions for you to improve your brand message (I almost always do), we’ll set up a complimentary 30-minute call to discuss. A select number of websites are also chosen for my LINGO Review Video Series. Fill out the application today and let’s get your business speaking the right LINGO!

Host Jeffrey Shaw is a Small Business Consultant, Brand Management Consultant, Business Coach for Entrepreneurs, Keynote Speaker, TEDx Speaker and author of LINGO and The Self Employed Life (May 2021). Supporting self-employed business owners with business and personal development strategies they need to create sustainable success.


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